Recently I’ve been carefully following the excellent Wrestling Playlists substack and creating some video highlights for the matches that strike me as being especially notable. If you’re not familiar with it, Charles from the PWO message board is curating the entire televised history of professional wrestling, from the earliest existing footage to the present.
I’m going to agree with Flair, but I also want to give some love to Ricky Steamboat. The best of his career spanned two-plus decades. That match against Savage at WM3 is an NWA-style match in the ultimate cartoon show, and then his work in WCW in the late 80s and early 90s was tremendous.
Know he doesn’t have the accolades, titles, didn’t draw like the names mentioned above, but William Regal is low key wrestling god. He could do it all.
One of those cases where you have a clear gut reaction to the question... and then read through this pretty detailed assessment of the potential candidates and find you arrive at the same conclusion as your gut.
It's Flair. That total star package, as you laid out.
If Danielson didn’t have his WWE time period, I’d probably have a stronger desire to fight for him, but that’s like a dozen years of matches that don’t crack his top 50 and the leaky brain hiatus that maybe was them just warehousing him because they thought the optics were bad. Flair is probably the right answer until he dies, but every time he shows up on tv now it sort of feels like the legacy takes a bit of a hit
It really is so subjective...to me Danielson's WWE run is the only thing that might push him into contention. Really expanded his total game and helped him develop a connection to the audience that stands out among his peers.
The Danielson who cuts the promo on Okada telling him how there’s no rain in the fucking desert probably doesn’t exist without WWE, but at the same time I’ll spend a couple days of watching all of his stuff other stuff before I think about getting to a particular match he had there, just because their house style puts a cap on what he was able to do (now granted, because he’s Bryan Danielson, he can still do their house style better than pretty much anybody has ever done it). That’s why Funk > Flair in my book, because Terry could make anything work and wrestled to whatever he wants thought would work best in front of that crowd on that night
I'd argue that Flair's renaissance strengthens his case as the GOAT. Crowd reactions, appreciations, tributes, moves, and WHOOOOs are all reminders of his ongoing influence and help build his legacy. WWE constantly promotes Cena and needs to; no one would argue he's the best otherwise. Flair doesn't need that kind of help because the public and his peers do it for him.
When you’re at the top of the mountain you’re more or less splitting hairs on personal preference. My ultimate argument for funk would be that if,somehow, everything that flair and funk had done had made it onto tape, you’d see a lot of the same from flair across the years if you randomly picked like 5 matches and 5 interviews (combination of him being the traveling champ and how character essentially just needing tweaking whether he was babyface or heel). For funk, you could get wildly divergent things just pulling on different times from when he was in Japan, and it’s all dope
To me, Kurt Angle is the best of all time. He can do any style of wrestling you need and can work great as a heel or babyface. From a true amateur contest to a comedy spot fest he could do it all and make you believe it was all legit. I truly think if he stayed in WWE and not go to TNA we would all think he is the greatest.
I've always loved Bryan Danielson (his run to main event Wrestlemania got me back into wrestling) and I've absolutely loved his AEW run. It's made me appreciate him even more. I just love that guy so much.
I definitely agree about Ric Flair being the guy. I also find it interesting how a lot of the biggest stars are always pretty quick to say he's the greatest of all time (Austin, Taker, Hulk, I'm pretty sure HBK). Do you really think he'll be forgotten about in this conversation 20 years from now? I feel like in the internet age with a lot of footage available and the respect he gets from his peers he'll be remembered fondly. But also, I'll be old so I really don't want to think about it.
In 20 years Austin's height will have been 45 years in the past.
I think the footage thing is what will do him in. His style is anachronistic. No one really wrestles that way anymore and his best matches will be 60 years old.
God when you put it that way it’s depressing. I’m unsubscribing immediately. I really enjoy getting these newsletters in my email. I’m surprised every time. Just yesterday I actually printed out the Jeff Bowdren top matches of the 80’s you had mentioned so I can go through it one by one when I need a match to watch.
I'm a longtime Flair fan who was prepared to read a different answer. (I might even give a different answer when Okada's career is over.) But now, the combination you identified as well as the staggering range of Flair's opponents and matches keeps him at the top of the list.
One major credit accruing to Flair you didn't mention is his ability to work face while maintaining his core identity. Being able to walk out of both dressing rooms with nearly as much credibility either way is an incredibly rare skill. Modern greats like Joe, Danielson, and Bret demonstrate how hard that is.
He's not a "star," so it's not a serious pick, but...Brian Cage is who I'd build my e-wrestling promotion around. Or perhaps the Creed Brothers, but they don't have the reps and aren't hitting the juice hard enough. You have to hit the juice or I won't push you. Simple as.
Beyond that, I retain a real fondness for Dalton Castle. The total package of a package that no one cares about, with a career slowed by back problems.
As for the old guys, any of the fat or steroidal suplex men who legitimately injured their opponents get props from me. That's the real work.
He’s incredible. There’s so much going on with his gimmick and presentation and yet in 2023 it seems to have an audience of no one in particular. Of course I love it and sympathize with him
That's it. It's a truly awesome vibe - a lounge singer who has mastered some instrument nobody particularly cares about. Watching him work so hard to job to the likes of Nick Wayne, Jericho, the Acclaimed, whoever...it's a treat. He always carries on like the biggest thing in the ring, and IMO, he usually is. Also some of the best amateur wrestling-adapted offense for "domestic television wrestling" in the world, not that anyone cares.
One thing I can't abide is bad juice work. Will Hobbs looks terrible...pimples everywhere, a poorly-developed chest with breast tissue (Jinder Mahal had similar issues). Or just general sloppiness, like the way Keith Lee has declined. Awful
I've never thought of Jericho that way. He's had a very good career, but he didn't reach the heights in the ring or at the box office that would make me consider him the greatest living wrestler. That's a pretty high bar.
It is a high bar but it also depends on what exactly you're looking for. His work early on in his career, in his matches in Japan against Benoit and Eddie, into his WCW run, were great. He had the balls to bet on himself, going to WWE when it was the land of the giants and succeeded. He's constantly reinvented himself over the decades and held titles everywhere. Him signing with AEW in it's very beginning was huge for them, as arguably he had the highest name recognition of any of them. Steve Austin and the Rock are hard to beat when all you look at is drawing power but both had relatively short wrestling careers and a case could easily be made for John Cena beating them both when it comes to box office. Unfortunately, as far as match quality, which is what I think of when I think greatest living wrestler, Jericho has had far more great matches than the three of them. Danielson is excellence personified but hasn't had the drawing power of Jericho. So it just depends on what your criteria for greatest comes down to. Jericho isn't even one of my favorites lol but I can't imagine wrestling without him in it.
Jericho only wrestled Benoit once in a singles match in Japan. I'm not sure he wrestled Eddie at all, though they did tag once that I recall. Jericho was with WAR and CMLL while Eddie, of course, was AAA and NJPW. Jericho as a junior was fine—but it's nothing you'd build a case for greatest living wrestler on.
It's generally agreed that Jericho's work in WCW (in the ring) was middle of the pack stuff. I've never seen anyone suggest it was great, beyond some of his character work, which was fun undercard stuff.
I don't know that you can make a serious case that Jericho was top 25 at any point of his career as an in-ring wrestler to be honest. Perhaps at the height of his WWE run? Opinions may vary.
As a box office attraction, Jericho isn't really among the best of the modern era. Perfectly fine for a standard Hall of Fame case, but not really something that would influence my opinion on whether he's our greatest living wrestler.
I’m going to agree with Flair, but I also want to give some love to Ricky Steamboat. The best of his career spanned two-plus decades. That match against Savage at WM3 is an NWA-style match in the ultimate cartoon show, and then his work in WCW in the late 80s and early 90s was tremendous.
Know he doesn’t have the accolades, titles, didn’t draw like the names mentioned above, but William Regal is low key wrestling god. He could do it all.
Regal has a lot of fun matches. I think the main knock on him was a failure to hold it together long enough periods.
One of those cases where you have a clear gut reaction to the question... and then read through this pretty detailed assessment of the potential candidates and find you arrive at the same conclusion as your gut.
It's Flair. That total star package, as you laid out.
I don't at all know who is No. 2, however.
If Danielson didn’t have his WWE time period, I’d probably have a stronger desire to fight for him, but that’s like a dozen years of matches that don’t crack his top 50 and the leaky brain hiatus that maybe was them just warehousing him because they thought the optics were bad. Flair is probably the right answer until he dies, but every time he shows up on tv now it sort of feels like the legacy takes a bit of a hit
It really is so subjective...to me Danielson's WWE run is the only thing that might push him into contention. Really expanded his total game and helped him develop a connection to the audience that stands out among his peers.
The Danielson who cuts the promo on Okada telling him how there’s no rain in the fucking desert probably doesn’t exist without WWE, but at the same time I’ll spend a couple days of watching all of his stuff other stuff before I think about getting to a particular match he had there, just because their house style puts a cap on what he was able to do (now granted, because he’s Bryan Danielson, he can still do their house style better than pretty much anybody has ever done it). That’s why Funk > Flair in my book, because Terry could make anything work and wrestled to whatever he wants thought would work best in front of that crowd on that night
I'd argue that Flair's renaissance strengthens his case as the GOAT. Crowd reactions, appreciations, tributes, moves, and WHOOOOs are all reminders of his ongoing influence and help build his legacy. WWE constantly promotes Cena and needs to; no one would argue he's the best otherwise. Flair doesn't need that kind of help because the public and his peers do it for him.
When you’re at the top of the mountain you’re more or less splitting hairs on personal preference. My ultimate argument for funk would be that if,somehow, everything that flair and funk had done had made it onto tape, you’d see a lot of the same from flair across the years if you randomly picked like 5 matches and 5 interviews (combination of him being the traveling champ and how character essentially just needing tweaking whether he was babyface or heel). For funk, you could get wildly divergent things just pulling on different times from when he was in Japan, and it’s all dope
To me, Kurt Angle is the best of all time. He can do any style of wrestling you need and can work great as a heel or babyface. From a true amateur contest to a comedy spot fest he could do it all and make you believe it was all legit. I truly think if he stayed in WWE and not go to TNA we would all think he is the greatest.
Some things about him as a performer kind of irk me to the point I just have a hard time seeing him that way.
I've always loved Bryan Danielson (his run to main event Wrestlemania got me back into wrestling) and I've absolutely loved his AEW run. It's made me appreciate him even more. I just love that guy so much.
I definitely agree about Ric Flair being the guy. I also find it interesting how a lot of the biggest stars are always pretty quick to say he's the greatest of all time (Austin, Taker, Hulk, I'm pretty sure HBK). Do you really think he'll be forgotten about in this conversation 20 years from now? I feel like in the internet age with a lot of footage available and the respect he gets from his peers he'll be remembered fondly. But also, I'll be old so I really don't want to think about it.
In 20 years Austin's height will have been 45 years in the past.
I think the footage thing is what will do him in. His style is anachronistic. No one really wrestles that way anymore and his best matches will be 60 years old.
God when you put it that way it’s depressing. I’m unsubscribing immediately. I really enjoy getting these newsletters in my email. I’m surprised every time. Just yesterday I actually printed out the Jeff Bowdren top matches of the 80’s you had mentioned so I can go through it one by one when I need a match to watch.
I love that.
I think my list would be very different today, but it is a great starting point.
I'm a longtime Flair fan who was prepared to read a different answer. (I might even give a different answer when Okada's career is over.) But now, the combination you identified as well as the staggering range of Flair's opponents and matches keeps him at the top of the list.
One major credit accruing to Flair you didn't mention is his ability to work face while maintaining his core identity. Being able to walk out of both dressing rooms with nearly as much credibility either way is an incredibly rare skill. Modern greats like Joe, Danielson, and Bret demonstrate how hard that is.
Thanks for another insightful piece!
I actually think Flair's case would be even stronger if he'd been more willing to turn babyface.
For almost a decade he wanted to be a heel when the audience was no longer accepting him in that role.
If you are reading the email version, I accidentally left off a mention of one of the modern greats:
"Bryan Danielson, the best contemporary star in my humble opinion, is the closest to an all-timer in my book."
He's not a "star," so it's not a serious pick, but...Brian Cage is who I'd build my e-wrestling promotion around. Or perhaps the Creed Brothers, but they don't have the reps and aren't hitting the juice hard enough. You have to hit the juice or I won't push you. Simple as.
Beyond that, I retain a real fondness for Dalton Castle. The total package of a package that no one cares about, with a career slowed by back problems.
As for the old guys, any of the fat or steroidal suplex men who legitimately injured their opponents get props from me. That's the real work.
Dalton Castle is a big favorite in my house.
He’s incredible. There’s so much going on with his gimmick and presentation and yet in 2023 it seems to have an audience of no one in particular. Of course I love it and sympathize with him
I actually love the fact that he tries so hard with his character work even when no one in the audience seems to know who he is.
There's something kind of sleazy and delightful about that, like an earnest lounge singer.
That's it. It's a truly awesome vibe - a lounge singer who has mastered some instrument nobody particularly cares about. Watching him work so hard to job to the likes of Nick Wayne, Jericho, the Acclaimed, whoever...it's a treat. He always carries on like the biggest thing in the ring, and IMO, he usually is. Also some of the best amateur wrestling-adapted offense for "domestic television wrestling" in the world, not that anyone cares.
We watched him in ROH live, before they were bought by AEW and he does that whole act for like 200 people. It's amazing.
the wrestling embodiment of this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiEWT1lxl6A&ab_channel=KCRW
One thing I can't abide is bad juice work. Will Hobbs looks terrible...pimples everywhere, a poorly-developed chest with breast tissue (Jinder Mahal had similar issues). Or just general sloppiness, like the way Keith Lee has declined. Awful
Chris Jericho has to be in there. He's done it all. Bryan Danielson. MJF is well on his way.
I've never thought of Jericho that way. He's had a very good career, but he didn't reach the heights in the ring or at the box office that would make me consider him the greatest living wrestler. That's a pretty high bar.
It is a high bar but it also depends on what exactly you're looking for. His work early on in his career, in his matches in Japan against Benoit and Eddie, into his WCW run, were great. He had the balls to bet on himself, going to WWE when it was the land of the giants and succeeded. He's constantly reinvented himself over the decades and held titles everywhere. Him signing with AEW in it's very beginning was huge for them, as arguably he had the highest name recognition of any of them. Steve Austin and the Rock are hard to beat when all you look at is drawing power but both had relatively short wrestling careers and a case could easily be made for John Cena beating them both when it comes to box office. Unfortunately, as far as match quality, which is what I think of when I think greatest living wrestler, Jericho has had far more great matches than the three of them. Danielson is excellence personified but hasn't had the drawing power of Jericho. So it just depends on what your criteria for greatest comes down to. Jericho isn't even one of my favorites lol but I can't imagine wrestling without him in it.
Jericho only wrestled Benoit once in a singles match in Japan. I'm not sure he wrestled Eddie at all, though they did tag once that I recall. Jericho was with WAR and CMLL while Eddie, of course, was AAA and NJPW. Jericho as a junior was fine—but it's nothing you'd build a case for greatest living wrestler on.
It's generally agreed that Jericho's work in WCW (in the ring) was middle of the pack stuff. I've never seen anyone suggest it was great, beyond some of his character work, which was fun undercard stuff.
I don't know that you can make a serious case that Jericho was top 25 at any point of his career as an in-ring wrestler to be honest. Perhaps at the height of his WWE run? Opinions may vary.
As a box office attraction, Jericho isn't really among the best of the modern era. Perfectly fine for a standard Hall of Fame case, but not really something that would influence my opinion on whether he's our greatest living wrestler.